Maxwell very unlucky, averages a bit over 33 in his last 10 test innings, this is with only playing tests abroad, India, UAE and Bangladesh. Warner as an example averages 31 against India, and only in the 20’s in India (where Maxy only played), so his stats stack up against basically anyone except Steve Smith for the locations and tests he actually played. If he had been given some tests in Australia to pad his average he would’ve been a lock in the test team for the last 10 years.

Also hard to justify him as an all rounder in tests given he hasn’t bowled more than 4 overs in a test innings since 2014, which in fact he took 7 wickets across 4 innings when he was actually allowed to roll the arm.

Maxi has certainly been a victim of both tough selection and poor captaincy. Imagine the sliding doors moment if he got a boxing day test and tonned up 10 years ago.

There’s barely a Belmore junior or one club player at the dogs.

Sorry, I was wrong – but it’s basically the same. Hughes had played 2 first grade games over 4 years before joining the storm. My point was the myth that the storm have heaps of players from other clubs and penrith develop and produce all of their own is wrong. The storm are developing just as much, and have an amazing record of turning washed up players into regular first graders.

Over Tallis or Thorn? Or Furner or Croker? Maybe ahead of Croker. Maybe he jags a bench spot.

Yep fair points mate and Crichton over Wiki or Smith is a fair shout, I dont think so yet but by the end of his career probably. I dont think he will surpass Meninga or Renouf.
The fact Sailor in 2001 made more metres than To’o this year exactly underlines my point. It is a new phenomen, Sailor was doing it 20 years ahead of To’o and in an era where it wasn’t expected or the norm. I know who I’d rather line up against, and it isn’t Sailor.
Martin as the second best second rower of the NRL era behind Tallis is laughable and purely just nonsense spewed after a great performance in the GF. I say that, and I rate Martin highly and would love him at my club.
Martin has only played 12 origins, 5 of them were off the bench, meaning there’s only been 7 occasions he’s been deemed as one of the best 2 backrowers in NSW since his rep debut in 2021, let alone one of the best in the game at that period of time, let alone of the last 30 years! He’s only played a handful of tests for the Kangaroos and was assisted with selection by some key injuries over that time.
The rhetoric is ridiculous.
Only once he’s continued his form in the NRL for another 3-4 years, clocked up another 20 rep performances can we even discuss his standing within this era.

Edwards has played 2 games for NSW and 3 for Australia at age 28, at the same age Lockyer had played 35 odd games for the Kangaroos and 20 odd for the maroons. Even suggesting that Edwards is somehow a better player is laughable.

I’d be willing to debate Cleary v Langer, either has merit.

Luai over Walters is not even worth discussion its so ridiculous.

I didn’t say he was dropped. There were 2 competitions in 1997, one halfback spot available – Johns got it. Without question there were politics involved in that first merged team. There’s no shame in being selected behind Johns, and he was, but only for one game. Then he was selected ahead of Johns at halfback for every game until he retired.

So if a version of a “washed up Alfie” is still deemed better than Johns by selectors at that time, you cannot in the same breath claim that due to Alf being in the twilight of his career he isn’t better than Cleary. You’re effectively arguing that Cleary is better than Johns.

I don’t agree with the above, and I wasn’t doing a 3 way team-merge to avoid what exactly happened – pretty much an even split across the board and there wouldn’t be a Penrith player make the bench, but your points are certainly relevant and mounted a decent case. I’d only have 3-4 penrith players going into either of the Broncos or Raiders teams – Liam Martin wouldn’t make either for me, he’s not ahead of Furner, Croker, Clyde or Tallis, Thorn, Carroll for me – maybe he would jag a bench spot.

I would still select Sailor ahead of To’o, but I’d have To’o ahead of Devere in the Broncos team merge. The metres gained thing is a new phenomenen, some bog average forwards would gain more metres than greats of the game such as Lazarus and Webcke of yesteryear, same applies to wingers. Featuring in the top 10 metres gained for 2024 includes Greg Marzhew, Timoko, Connor Tracey and leading the way is Kiraz. Its not a yardstick for great performances, but its an obsession of commentators and fantasy leagues.

The point about the panthers current players only being part-way through their career is 100% accurate and its one variable that unfortunately can’t be removed.

Crichton of 3 years ago is still nowhere near being ahead of Darren Smith or Renouf, or either Raiders centres, even now 3 years later I wouldn’t select him.

I wouldn’t select Cleary ahead of either Stuart or Langer, Langer was even selected ahead of Johns in 1998. But I can see why some might choose Cleary.

He wasn’t dropped for the ANZAC test, it was the first test since the ARL and super league test came back together and they had to appease power brokers by sharing the love and gifting Johns the halfback jersey. Johns and the Kangaroos would embarassingly lose the ANZAC test for the first time in almost 20 years and Alfie replaced Johns at halfback for the Kangaroos at the end of the season, after man of the match performances for QLD and captaining his club side to a grand final victory. So at the “end” of his career he was still selected ahead of Johns.

Langer would also go on to be selected ahead of Johns in the 1999 ANZAC test, only weeks before retiring too, coached by Chris Anderson and not Bennett. Supposedly when Johns was at the peak of his powers too.

You’re obviously misinformed. Langer was still awesome that year, he got man of the match in state of origin 1, won the premiership and captained the kangaroos. He also dominated state of origin 4 years later, so at his peak or not, he was still awesome in 98 – it was one of the best individual seasons by any player, so regardless of whether it was at the end of his career or not, it was brilliant.

The enforcement of the salary cap prior to super league is suspicious at best. The Canberra and Broncos side were absolutely stacked.

What nonsense.

You think Dylan Edwards is better than Lockyer?
Cleary better than Langer?
Luai better than Walters?
Alamoti and Tago better than Renouf and Darren Smith?
To’o and Turuva a better wing pairing than DeVere and Sailor?
I mean for gods sake, the Broncos had Petro on the bench. Maybe Lindsay Smith is better than Petro too huh?

I think actually the Storm had more one-club players than the panthers in the GF….. so while thats a lovely story and almost correct, not actually true.

I agree mate and thats the point. If Panthers hadn’t lost those players it would be a fairer comparison (in terms of like for like situations), but lining up the team lists next to eachother its very evidence that those sides were considerably stronger than this Panthers – and that was the point I was making. Levelling out the talent with the salary cap and forcing the top teams to lose players not only helps bring the bottom teams up in talent, it also shaves the talent off the best teams and we’re being robbed of seeing truly awesome teams.

The panthers are amazing and have achieved a lot and more than even the teams I mentioned, but man for man, talent for talent, they don’t stack up at all to those great teams.

The author was right, it was a snooze fest of a game. The highlight reel will be small and probably notably be missing the try the storm were robbed of.

The commentary teams cries of “this is the best game ever” fell flat across the board and were almost laughable and completely non-believable to anyone who was listening to their forced superlatives.

It wasn’t the best game ever, it was probably the least interesting grand final in 20 years. I would struggle to recall one that was less interesting.

look at the match ups of the different squads. Which panthers make the Broncos of 1998 team if you’re doing a merged side? To’o, Fisher Harris and maybe Yeo. Leota and Cleary might get a bench spot.

100% different eras and both good. The point is, those teams I pointed out were obviously stronger across the board. They were effectively 90% of a rep team. Its not a slight on the panthers, it makes what they have achieved as a team even more remarkable.

An even competition isn’t a stronger competition and doesn’t result in the top teams being stronger than those of previous eras. That was the point I was trying to make, but perhaps failed to do so.

I think its a true shame that the Panthers have lost so many good quality players and lost the chance to have a team that could rival those of the Raiders/Broncos of the 1990’s. I mean seriously, a centre pairing of Alamoti and Tago up against Meninga and Wiki as a centres pairing, or up against Renouf and Darren Smith?

Look at them man for man. The panthers team isn’t close, it’d be a toss of the coin to even pick Cleary ahead of Alf or Stuart, I wouldn’t pick him but some might. The props from the panthers might make the raiders and fisher harris might make one prop position in the broncos (webcke the other prop). Aside frm that, not a panther wouldmake it.

The only bit I agree with is the last bit, if they hadn’t lost all their players. Thats my point, if Api, Crichton and a bunch of others were still in this panthers side, only then would they be as good as those great sides I mentioned.

As a side in terms of what they have achieved, its fantastic.

If the Broncos of 98 or the Raiders of 94 played this panthers team they’d smash them. Man for man those teams are way stronger.

As I said though, its a different era and what this team have achieved is amazing. Playing in an era where the talent is watered down and spread out makes them a great team that is playing in this era, but they’re not a better team than those ones.

As a neutral this was one of the most boring grand finals in recent history. The superlatives of the Channel 9 game talking it up were embarrassing. The Storm no try is the death of the bunker as we know it and Atkins should not be allowed near a football field again – we were all waiting for the bunker blunder to happen in the GF and without surprise, there it was.

Man for man this Penrith team isn’t even close to the Raiders of the early 90’s or the Broncos of the early or late 90’s. If you tried to merge the Panthers team with either of those teams, only about 3 Penrith players would make the team.

That aside, I completely agree with how impressive it is. Doing it with losing quality player after quality player each year is really an amazing feat.

I think a better idea is they serve the suspension the next time they play that same team, ie: so they team that the injured player (ie: Lindsay Collins) actually benefits from the suspension of the player who did the infringement (ie: NAS). Thats easy for a one game suspension, but for multiple weeks, then what? Maybe the combination of both that method + the window to serve the rest of the time.

Manly were one of 3-4 good teams of the mid-90’s, they won 1 premiership, the same as two other teams across 94,95,96, and if you extrapolate that out a year further either aside then Brisbane won 3 premierships and Manly were simply one of 4 other teams that won 1 premiership in that period of time and the one one year manly did win was the season that was a shambles and heavily impacted by the super league war (obviously not as much as 97, but more than 94 and 95). If you want to go even a year further either side (including 92 and 98) then Brisbane won 4 premierships and Manly were one of 4 sides to win 1 premiership during that period.

Minor premierships are worth nothing, nobody remembers those except when wanting to trot out stats for an argument.

That said, Manly were an excellent team in the mid 90’s. But not much (or if any) more than Canberra, the dogs and Brisbane other than perhaps one season of ’96 which was frankly a stained season.